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WWF/E etc against UFC


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blackviking
Title: Lord of the Manor
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: London, Engerland
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 04:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

As a young manchild I was a classic product of The Karate Kid. I kickboxed from the age of 7 and enjoyed a spot of WWF (having 3 older brothers also helped). I loved a spot of Seargant Slaughter, The Rockers, Jake The Snake etc.... But i found i grew out of it pretty quick, I stopped kickboxing at 15, went to college and pretty much forgot all about it.

then, i remember watching this great documentary called The Smashing Machine. I found the Pride stuff pretty hardcore, but impressive nonetheless. For me, allthough they try and ham it up abit sometimes, i can watch UFC easily. But i can't watch wrestling anymore. Now, i see alot of you are pretty into your wrestling. With the real thing now readily available in the guise of UFC, whats the attraction of WWE nowadays? What draws you to it? and have any of you crossed over to watching WWE to only watching UFC or similar?
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erock
Title: likes to party
Joined: Dec 21 2007
Location: Phoenix. its hot outside
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 05:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Thats like asking someone who likes war movies why they don't just sit around and watch the news about the war in Iraq. If you ask that question you might as well ask why do people watch any sort of scripted tv or movies which are all fake. Or asking someone who likes Rocky why they don't watch real boxing.
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blackviking
Title: Lord of the Manor
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: London, Engerland
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 07:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

i know exactly what your saying. i'm not asking why people like scripted tv, or digging at wrestling.
the crux of the idea is this: most people get into wrestling when they are pretty young, and they probably think its more real than it is at that point in there lives. in fact, you watch it as a sport, right? so at some point it changes in your mind into a tv show, like a soap... so when/how does it happen?


news is always news, rocky always a silly boxing film with a floppy lipped italian. wrestling is......a sport when your young? a soap with bodybuilders? just good ol' fashioned entertainment?
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 08:51 pm Reply with quote Back to top

UFC is much better than a bad wrestling match, which is at least 80% of the WWE's current matches. However, I find that a UFC match cannot compare to a quality wrestling match. The reason is that UFC is unscripted, a lot of matches end up being one-sided, and many of them end up being over in under five minutes. A quality wrestling match is choreographed in such a way that it's just far more entertaining than watching two guys try and beat the shit out of each other for real. For example, a really good ladder match is just phenomenal to watch. Sure the outcome is predetermined, but watching some guy do a backflip onto his opponent from 15 feet up in the air is just fucking insane.
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blackviking
Title: Lord of the Manor
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: London, Engerland
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 09:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

syd = nail + head.

i agree, a proper fight is, alot of the time, pretty boring. As my brother puts it, 'a lot of cuddling'...

so the key to WWE working is making sure the spectacle is like the best UFC you can imagine, if people were made of some kinda spngycarbonfibremegaskin. that sounds worth breaking an alcoholic beverage for i suppose...
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Knyte
2010 SLF Tag Champ*
Title: Curator Of The VGM
Joined: Nov 01 2006
Location: Here I am.
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 09:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Most people who brush off Pro Wrestling as "Redneck Entertainment" do not realize that the key to a good match, is that it tells a story. If two guys throw nothing but clotheslines at each other and armbars, you're bored pretty quickly. Same holds true if two guys do nothing but high spots. It may look cool, but the match doesn't really draw you in.

Look at all the matches that are considered the best in history.

They are long drawn out battles between two men who are either of equal skills, or of an underdog overcoming greats odds.

The matches may go back and forth, or one man more overpower the other until he makes a fatal mistake, at which point the other man capitalizes.

Or after trying everything they can to win, but to no avail, they do some insane and risky move to try to acheive victory.

This is what makes them exciting to watch.
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 10:54 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I have to say im one of those who started off on WWF and now have migrated to the UFC.

I used to like WWF when i was a kid because it was enjoyable and I cared about the characters. I say characters because that was who they were once a week. Now we have wrestling 3 times a week I think, and all these new guys change their personality more than they change costumes. You just cant seem to get attached to a character anymore and root for him year in year out.

I agree w/syd's point about wrestling being about entertainment where you can have a predertemined winner but still enjoy the match. I havent seen wrestling in forever so i dont know if they still are enjoyable or not. Last one i remember watching was the TLC match between the dudley's, hardy's and another duo, I forget who.

I like the UFC because its very very technical and difficult to do. I watch it and it can be very entertaining to watch even if its only 3 minutes long as long as you dont understand what is going on.

Anyhow, i had more and it made sense before i wrote it, but im on meds cause of these wisdom teeth so if it doesnt make sense i apologize. in the end all i meant to say was: I used to like WWF, but now im a UFC fanatic.


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blackviking
Title: Lord of the Manor
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: London, Engerland
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 11:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

i dip in and out of UFC... any word if Fedor is closer to getting involved?
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username
Title: owner of a lonely heart
Joined: Jul 06 2007
Location: phoenix, az usa
PostPosted: Jan 14 2008 11:27 pm Reply with quote Back to top

From what i understand it is a no go w/Fedor and the UFC, which sucks cause he would be awesome to watch in the UFC.


Klimbatize wrote:
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Valdronius
Moderator
Title: SydLexia COO
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: The Great White North
PostPosted: Jan 15 2008 08:35 am Reply with quote Back to top

I also enjoy the diversity it takes to wrestle in the WWE. In UFC, you just need to hit hard and be able to take shots, and if you can work your way around a mat, great.

In Pro Wrestling, you need to be able to endure a 20+ minute match, be able to act to some degree, (though this area is seriously lacking), and you need to have an understanding of psychology.

I find the WWE is most exciting when there are lots of reversals, rather than just two guys pummeling each other. There's an Owen Hart/Pegasus Kid match from NJPW (I think) that showcases this perfectly.


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blackviking
Title: Lord of the Manor
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: London, Engerland
PostPosted: Jan 15 2008 08:56 am Reply with quote Back to top

Valdronius wrote:
I also enjoy the diversity it takes to wrestle in the WWE. In UFC, you just need to hit hard and be able to take shots, and if you can work your way around a mat, great.

my feeling towards UFC/MMA is that grappling skills are slightly more important than great striking ability. I'd say a Judo/Sambo champion would find it much easier coming into the sport rather than a Boxing champion. There was talk of Mayweather perhaps doing some MMA. Silky though his hands are, I's say he'd lose by submission in a coupla minutes.

WWE is about making it look good, abit like theatrical martial arts for film. Most martial arts designed for real fighting wouldn't really make good entertainment. shots to the neck, finger locks, pressure point shots, head stamps etc don't make for a very long, attractive fight...

big respect though to the athletes of WWE. all that dedication to make themselves that fit, then they have to do a strenuous routine AND try and act along the way. its a specialised profession......!
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nihilisticglee
Joined: Oct 12 2007
PostPosted: Jan 15 2008 10:20 pm Reply with quote Back to top

blackviking wrote:
my feeling towards UFC/MMA is that grappling skills are slightly more important than great striking ability. I'd say a Judo/Sambo champion would find it much easier coming into the sport rather than a Boxing champion.

That depends. Being able to grapple is great, but in heavyweight boxing a first round knock is completely possible, and their golves are more padded then the MMA ones. At some of the lighter weights a grappler would have an advantage due to their being less force behind both fighter's strikes, but a heavyweight boxer could get a KO in one or two punches.
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blackviking
Title: Lord of the Manor
Joined: Jan 08 2008
Location: London, Engerland
PostPosted: Jan 15 2008 11:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

one great shot from a lightweight can be enough to win a fight, for sure.

problem is, in boxing, at some point you're gonna have to hit back at close-range, fists only. When you can use your hands and feet for both offense and defense and pick your moment to try and grapple, it is alot easier to be evasive. Plus these heavy shots must be clean. if they're not, they tend to leave you vunerable and affect your balance.
thats why i reckon a great grappler with a few striking skills will be in a better position than a great striker whose just learnt to wrestle.

obviously, the best do both.
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nihilisticglee
Joined: Oct 12 2007
PostPosted: Jan 16 2008 05:26 am Reply with quote Back to top

blackviking wrote:
one great shot from a lightweight can be enough to win a fight, for sure.

problem is, in boxing, at some point you're gonna have to hit back at close-range, fists only. When you can use your hands and feet for both offense and defense and pick your moment to try and grapple, it is alot easier to be evasive. Plus these heavy shots must be clean. if they're not, they tend to leave you vunerable and affect your balance.
thats why i reckon a great grappler with a few striking skills will be in a better position than a great striker whose just learnt to wrestle.


In the end it would really come down to the style of grappling and style of boxing/striking being used.

Quote:
obviously, the best do both.


No arguement here
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Bouya
Title: Delinquent
Joined: Aug 15 2007
Location: Suzuran
PostPosted: Jan 17 2008 02:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

Why not watch Firepower and mix both? no-holds barred fighting, except scripted on account of it being a movie, and it features the Ultimate Warrior as "The Swordsman."
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