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United 93


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Juffo-Wup
Joined: Apr 30 2006
Location: Helsinki
PostPosted: May 03 2006 02:41 am Reply with quote Back to top

So what if Regal spitted out something thats obvious loonie-lock-me-up crap ? It's no reason to lock up thread. Next time someone says "God doesn't exist" or "Praise Allah", the thread is locked. Right ?

This is so depressing.


I'd rather burn out, than fade away
 
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Kurt
Joined: Mar 14 2006
PostPosted: May 03 2006 02:45 am Reply with quote Back to top

Juffo-Wup wrote:
So what if Regal spitted out something thats obvious loonie-lock-me-up crap ? It's no reason to lock up thread. Next time someone says "God doesn't exist" or "Praise Allah", the thread is locked. Right ?

This is so depressing.


Actually, I assumed it was because of the flaming/slight offtopicness.


I'm going to bed now; goodnight.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 03 2006 03:21 am Reply with quote Back to top

Kurt's right; I wanted it locked for the inevitable flaming that has already begun (going off topic doesn't really bother me since all threads do that anyway).

Zarak, no I'm not going to tell you how that happened with the Pentagon since I know absolutely nothing about the architecture of the building or if any of your numbers are accurate. But since you seem to want to subscribe to all this conspiracy stuff, then provide me with a motive. Not only that, tell me what you intend to do about it. If our government is evil and orchestrated the whole attack, what steps have you taken to help remove this despicable government? It's your constitutional right so if you don't feel the government has taken, or at the very least is trying to take, steps in the right direction to do something about it.

And don't respect me just because I'm Syd's brother, that's a pretty silly rationale. That's like saying you love all the Baldwins just because of Alec.


dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com - Updated sometimes, but on hiatus!
UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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Juffo-Wup
Joined: Apr 30 2006
Location: Helsinki
PostPosted: May 03 2006 06:43 am Reply with quote Back to top

Well yeah, off topic is rather usual. Start discussion about chocolate chips and 15 posts later we're talking about G-11 assault rifle. But there is "flaming" and there is Flaming


I'd rather burn out, than fade away
 
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 03 2006 07:05 am Reply with quote Back to top

I am not going to lock this thread, at least not yet. I don't think the flaming has gotten out of hand and it's not off topic. After all, you can't discuss Flight 93 without discussing 9/11.

As for a missile hitting the Pentagon, it's certainly plausible. I love a good conspiracy theory and this one was very well done, what with the flash presentation with the creepy music and all. However, I began to wonder why this story hadn't picked up any attention in the mainstream media. Bush's approval rating is in the toilet and papers such as the Washington Post and New York Times are clamoring for the final nail to drive into his coffin. So I began to wonder if this was really a cover up or if there were problems with the missile theory. Here's what I found:

An engineer and physicist refute the missile theory.
The missile theory refuted on Snopes.
Al Qaeda admits responsibility for 9/11 attacks.
USA Today - Conspiracy film rewrites 9/11

Now I'm not saying a missile didn't hit the Pentagon, but if one is truly keep an open mind, one should consider the above.

There's also ANOTHER conspiracy theory that claims the missile theory is disinformation propogated by the White House in order to keep people from questioning how an airliner got into restricted airspace with no opposition. The site claims the government was complicit in the 9/11 attacks in order to a launch a war for oil. I am not going to link to that site because it is ugly and poorly designed. PM me if you really want the link.
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braincras
Title: braincrassed/audiofille
Joined: Apr 05 2006
Location: Canada
PostPosted: May 03 2006 09:52 am Reply with quote Back to top

the whole 9/11 thing is far from clear.

if it's clear for you, there is United 93.

btw, thanks for the links Syd.


old skewl gamer.
 
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Jo_thepirate
Title: the Great Bob
Joined: Jan 18 2006
Location: Spammamania
PostPosted: May 03 2006 10:16 am Reply with quote Back to top

i'm not here to show that's a conspiracy, but to show that the explanation they gave to us, i mean rest of the world, dont stand and isnt rational...

i used a hyperlink in the first link you gave us Syd that gave us picture of the pentagone before/after the crash

pic 1
Image

pic 2

Image

So my question is-> where is the plane tail, knowing that a boeing 757 is quite a really long and big plane, and even with the fireball/explosion we could see the plane tail ???

the plane gaz tank are in the wings, and i really doubt that even if the wing could possibly get stuck into the body of the plane and explode into a big fireball it wont obliterate the plane into small wreckage instantly (if so, i wont take the plane anymore), and i believe that it could still piece "untouched" by the explosion, by example the tail, who "misteriously disappear... Rolling Eyes

here the guilty..


=======================
Fear the new conspiracy - the bunny conspiracy
.(\/)
(O.O)
( > < )
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Sock
Title: Master Fornicator
Joined: Mar 12 2006
Location: The Skies Above
PostPosted: May 03 2006 01:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

You really think a country would kill 3,000 (and then some) of its own citizens and severely damage one of their most important military structures just for oil? You believe the internet over the God damn US Government? How do you know the information in these 9/11 conspiracy articles is accurate? It could be some total bullshit someone put up there just to get a laugh out of people taking it serious.
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Jo_thepirate
Title: the Great Bob
Joined: Jan 18 2006
Location: Spammamania
PostPosted: May 03 2006 01:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

People in higher sphere see human being as statistic and/or resources.. during WWII, russian got the pole position in human loss (21 millions ppl) and officer have the order to shoot their own soldier if those were retreating. Today the "game" is just more subtle but in the end it stay the same: sacrificying a small group of ppl for the sake of thousands Rolling Eyes yes 3000 americans is a great number but 10 000(and maybe more) irakians is greater, its statistic..

politician are playing god just like pharaoh was, the only difference is that today we got thousands of "ruler" not only one..

I dont believe the US goverment and i do not trust the information on the internet neither (cause its full of junk and shit). I'm just using a logical and rationnal thinking and i dont take what ppl say as absolute truth cause truth can be manipulated like anything else Wink
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Tebor
Moderator
Title: Master of the Universe
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Gotham City
PostPosted: May 03 2006 01:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Sock wrote:
You really think a country would kill 3,000 (and then some) of its own citizens and severely damage one of their most important military structures just for oil? You believe the internet over the God damn US Government? How do you know the information in these 9/11 conspiracy articles is accurate? It could be some total bullshit someone put up there just to get a laugh out of people taking it serious.


Once again, I'm not going to touch the issue of 9/11.

I will touch on the issue of conspiracies. I love "24" and "24" is real. Anything that happens on the show... say a nuclear bomb that was supposed to go off in LA so we could get oil... could really happen.

Do I believe the government would kill 3,000 of its own citizens? You bet your booty, but do I believe 9/11 was orchestrated by the government? No. It's too clever for them.


"If you will not tell me, I will hurt people!!!" -Nuclear Man

"Do you hear? The alpha and the omega. Death and rebirth. And as you die, so will I be reborn!" - Skeletor

8341 unread forum updates since I left (2/7/14)... Uh-oh.
 
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 03 2006 02:02 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Jo, you can't compare Bush to Stalin. I mean, you can try, but there's nothing there.

As for planning this attack so we could have a war for oil? First of all in 2001 I was paying $1.49 a gallon for oil, so clearly fighting over it was good. Secondly and far more importantly however, Iraq (Saddam) was violating the sanctions placed on them after Desert Storm so we already had justification to attack them WITHOUT killing our own people.

Then again, the US Government is nothing but a bunch of crochity old white men looking for the newest way to screw over and murder their own citizens. You can even find pictures online of Bush fellating the devil, so the US can't be trusted. Ever. About anything.


dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com - Updated sometimes, but on hiatus!
UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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Black Zarak
Title: Big Coffin Hunter
Joined: Feb 01 2006
Location: Phyrexia
PostPosted: May 03 2006 05:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Zarak, no I'm not going to tell you how that happened with the Pentagon since I know absolutely nothing about the architecture of the building or if any of your numbers are accurate. But since you seem to want to subscribe to all this conspiracy stuff, then provide me with a motive. Not only that, tell me what you intend to do about it. If our government is evil and orchestrated the whole attack, what steps have you taken to help remove this despicable government? It's your constitutional right so if you don't feel the government has taken, or at the very least is trying to take, steps in the right direction to do something about it.

And don't respect me just because I'm Syd's brother, that's a pretty silly rationale. That's like saying you love all the Baldwins just because of Alec.


But I do love all the Baldwins for Alec!

Seriously though, I apologize Jeebus, I got a little over-heated. The thing is, I'm not really that much of a conspiracy theorist, I never even thought about 9/11 being at all fishy until last weekend when I watched a few videos about the possibility of it being a conspiracy.

As for motive, the most obvious one is a reason to attack the middle east in search of their oil reserves. Another reason that I cannot confirm in any way shape or form is that one video claims that the amount was undocumented (casting more suspecion on the validity of it), but the basements of the twin towers had $167 billion dollars in gold stored in them and only $2 million was officially reported as being recovered.

As for what I'm going to do about it, you're right, not much. If it is in fact all true, this system is far too entrenched at this point to be shaken loose by anything less than armed revolt, which is never going to happen and I admit I would be too chicken to pick up a gun for.

I guess all I'm really trying to say is that you should think for yourself ("you" as a general term, not you specifically), cause it's when citizens stop thinking for themselves that governments get the idea in their heads that they can get away with shady business.


Image
REVIEWS, LEGOS, NONSENSE Check out Zarak's Barracks!

"Let that be a lesson to you, your family and everyone you've ever known..."

"Thanks to denial, I'm immortal!"
 
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Kurt
Joined: Mar 14 2006
PostPosted: May 03 2006 08:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Tebor wrote:
Do I believe the government would kill 3,000 of its own citizens? You bet your booty, but do I believe 9/11 was orchestrated by the government? No. It's too clever for them.


I don't think our government would just practically execute 3,000 of it's own citizens for any reasons outside of trying to spread a virulent disease (the bird flu comes to mind), but I also agree with Tebor on the point that 9/11 was not orchestrated by the government, because, yes; It's just way over their heads. AlsoManyWitnessesSawThePlanesHitTheBuildings, cough.

And just who is they, anyway? When people refer to the US government as "They", they're usually talking about Dick "Dick" Cheney, which I find pretty funny, insomuch as he's just a slightly more articulate and annoying Dan Quayle, who we all know very well.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 03 2006 09:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Black Zarak wrote:

As for motive, the most obvious one is a reason to attack the middle east in search of their oil reserves.


For this to work, you'd have to ignore the fact that we didn't need any reason to attack Iraq other than Saddam violating all the sanctions put on him. That and they'd need to have HIRED Al Qaida (I'm gonna butcher spellings here I'm sure) to orchestrate the attack because without middle eastern hijackers and a middle eastern terrorist claiming responsibility for the attack then it wouldn't have justified attacking hte middle east at all. And that situation is entirely impossible. You know why? Well if you've ever watched movies, tv, or probably listened to old radio shows then you'd know this:

Our government doesn't negotiate with terrorists Cool


dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com - Updated sometimes, but on hiatus!
UsaSatsui wrote:
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus

 
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Sock
Title: Master Fornicator
Joined: Mar 12 2006
Location: The Skies Above
PostPosted: May 03 2006 11:05 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Al Qaeda. All vowels are interchangable so it doesn't matter, really.
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Juffo-Wup
Joined: Apr 30 2006
Location: Helsinki
PostPosted: May 04 2006 01:54 am Reply with quote Back to top

As for Bush. He is Dictator, as he has all the characteristics

Unelected : YES
War waging nutjob : YES
Controls media : YES

Sad thing is that most of american people do not seem to
understand that.

And the conspiracy crap would be laughable if so many wouldn't take em' seriously.
You know Mutants really killed Kennedy ?
Elvis lives in our basement
and Osama bin Laden is really white


I'd rather burn out, than fade away
 
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Kurt
Joined: Mar 14 2006
PostPosted: May 04 2006 02:01 am Reply with quote Back to top

Juffo-Wup wrote:
As for Bush. He is Dictator, as he has all the characteristics

Unelected : YES
War waging nutjob : YES
Controls media : YES

Sad thing is that most of american people do not seem to
understand that.

And the conspiracy crap would be laughable if so many wouldn't take em' seriously.
You know Mutants really killed Kennedy ?
Elvis lives in our basement
and Osama bin Laden is really white


Let's cut it with the Elvis crap. You never know.

http://redzeppelinwinery.com/

Other than that:

Unelected : Possibly. Doubful, maybe.
War waging nutjob : Probably
Controls media : FUCK NO. FUCK NO FUCK NO FUCK NO. American media is fucked up as it is, but the idea that they even consider Bush to be a remotely competent president/human bieng is totally fucking rediculous. I say this because every single news network hates Republicans other than McCaine. Exept Fox, who lies forgotten on top of a throne of shit or something; I dunno. Who really cares?
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Juffo-Wup
Joined: Apr 30 2006
Location: Helsinki
PostPosted: May 04 2006 02:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

C'mon Bush is fucking lunatic with too many bloody dollars on his hands.
I'm off this topic


I'd rather burn out, than fade away
 
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Tebor
Moderator
Title: Master of the Universe
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Gotham City
PostPosted: May 04 2006 03:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

Juffo-Wup wrote:
C'mon Bush is fucking lunatic with too many bloody dollars on his hands.
I'm off this topic


Yay! Maybe peace will be restored to the forums now.

Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Smile


"If you will not tell me, I will hurt people!!!" -Nuclear Man

"Do you hear? The alpha and the omega. Death and rebirth. And as you die, so will I be reborn!" - Skeletor

8341 unread forum updates since I left (2/7/14)... Uh-oh.
 
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Jo_thepirate
Title: the Great Bob
Joined: Jan 18 2006
Location: Spammamania
PostPosted: May 04 2006 09:16 am Reply with quote Back to top

Dr. Jeebus wrote:
Jo, you can't compare Bush to Stalin. I mean, you can try, but there's nothing there.

As for planning this attack so we could have a war for oil? First of all in 2001 I was paying $1.49 a gallon for oil, so clearly fighting over it was good. Secondly and far more importantly however, Iraq (Saddam) was violating the sanctions placed on them after Desert Storm so we already had justification to attack them WITHOUT killing our own people.

Then again, the US Government is nothing but a bunch of crochity old white men looking for the newest way to screw over and murder their own citizens. You can even find pictures online of Bush fellating the devil, so the US can't be trusted. Ever. About anything.


well, i compare bush to stalin in the way that they both control they country with fear. Stalin was more violent by using military force, public execution, etc..you couldn't breath without his approbation.. and bush use media (tv ,radio, ..) to cultivate the fear of terrorism and evil "forces" who try to blow up USA. Its a more subtle way, but in the end its the same.. They surely have more in common though, but who am i say that, and im going far from the main subject..

Ok maybe i'm hitting hard by telling that american kills other american.. but Al-Qaeda is a tool and bush could use it(to put the blame on) easily as saddam could, but its only rumors(i mean for both of 'em). both are bad ass, both see ppl as statistic and both want to protect their interest..

In the end, two towers fell, bin laden is hidden in his big square of sand, iraq is conquered and cost more than 278,122,000,000 $USD (and took 20 years??), so whos the real winner?? cpt heroes or the evil dude ??
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Kubo
Joined: Aug 24 2005
Location: Mount Holly, NJ
PostPosted: May 04 2006 12:11 pm Reply with quote Back to top

God damn... I just wanted to see if anyone saw the movie.

But I guess considering it's been done to death, I might as well put MHO in here.

Did the US Government plot 9/11?
I'm 99% sure that the answer to this question is no. At least not in the way its implied in the "conspiracy theories." Is the US indirectly responsible because of bases in Saudi Arabia, the first Gulf War, and support for Israel pissing off Muslims in the Middle East? Maybe. But that still isn't justification for running fucking jets into buildings. I don't care what God you think you're worshipping.
As for the direct relationship between the Bush Admin. and 9/11, I didn't even hear this possibility until that nifty flash clip came out with the really spooky music. Regardless, I'm not convinced. For those that think it was done to justify war in Iraq, I think there's way easier ways to justify war than to kill 3000 American citizens. The 20-30 UN resolutions Saddam blew off, for example.


Thou, because I am wroth, be not dismayed, for I shall win the strife, whoever circle round within for the defence. This their insolence is not new, for of old they used it at a less secret gate, which still is found without a bolt. Above it thou didst see the dead inscription; and already on this side of it
descends the steep, passing without escort through the circles,
One such that by him the city shall be opened to us.
 
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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
PostPosted: May 04 2006 06:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I wasn't joking, and I'm glad others agreed with me.

It's just that, as an historian-in-training, it infuriates me when people make these outrageous claims with either no evidence or forged evidence. It's important to recognize the bias of these people, which is often a mentality of paranoia that sees shadowy "others" orchestrating events behind the scenes according to some devious agenda.

Also, if you bothered to read my signature, you'd realize that I'm no lemming of the government. I realize it's an incompetent morass of bureaucracies. The government may be a necessary evil, but it is certainly not orchestrating terrorist attacks on its own people and territory. That's just silly and defies common sense. In addition, comparing Bush to dictators such as Hitler and Stalin is historically irresponsible and loses the perspective towards the real horrors these tyrants committed.

Finally, as I don't intend on getting deep into a flame war during my first week at this board, this will be my final word in this thread. And, because I don't want to act like a stereotypical board nerd, I intend to keep my word and not reply again to to this topic, no matter what anyone says.
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Syd Lexia
Site Admin
Title: Pop Culture Junkie
Joined: Jul 30 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
PostPosted: May 05 2006 12:02 am Reply with quote Back to top

Cattivo, I don't want to make you break your word or draw you back into this thread, but I just want to let you know I agree with you about revisionist/alarmist history. Your avatar reminds me of some particularly insidious Cold War era idiocy. There were anti-Reagan critics who tried to make a huge deal out of his age and worked themselves into a fervor because they believed Reagan was senile and could push us into mutually assured destruction at any given moment. However, these same people were willing to ignore the fact that before Gorbachev rose to power, the Soviet Union had had a string of ailing old premiers who were rarely ever seen in public and at least one of whom was comatose at one point. Yes, the same people who were so quick to be afraid of what Reagan might do with nuclear weapons at his command were not at all concerned with who was controlling the Soviet stockpile. In fact, many of them will tell you that Soviet Russia was not so bad. I once had a World History professor who told of she visited Russia in the 80s and how nice it was. In the middle of this story, she also casually mentioned how she smuggled jeans into the country to sell on the black market. Yeah, some paradise. I'd LOVE to visit a country where jeans were worthy of the black market.
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Kurt
Joined: Mar 14 2006
PostPosted: May 05 2006 01:17 am Reply with quote Back to top

Syd Lexia wrote:
I'd LOVE to visit a country where jeans were worthy of the black market.


And jeans weren't the only things.

Sorry about the "He's just joking" post, Cattivo. I obviously didn't know what I was talking about, and your post summed up what I have to say, probably better than I could. I was just trying to lighten the mood, here. Sad

P.S. This is probably the most moderate forum I've ever posted on, bar none, and no joke. And what's this stuff about Bush controlling the media? Stuff like that makes me too tired to make a "I'm too tired to understand forigners" joke anyway. So I think I'm going off this thread too.
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Juffo-Wup
Joined: Apr 30 2006
Location: Helsinki
PostPosted: May 05 2006 01:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

It's useless to resist. Supporting Republicans makes you partner in crime.
Hitler, Stalin, Bush, Idi, Mugabe... they're the same shit, only different asshole.


I'd rather burn out, than fade away
 
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