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Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

Greg the White wrote:

Funny how anyone who says "let's wait for the facts" is basically saying they immediately side for Zimmerman when all they have is a testimony that doesn't hold up with a recorded 911 call. As far as I'm concerned, this was initiated by Zimmerman, a guy with a worse history than some kid who got in trouble a few times (I accidentally took a utility knife home from shop one time, and got suspended for it. People are acting like this screwdriver was a concealed weapon, hypocrisy in itself. The rest of the kid's record is conjecture and maybes). He saw some kid, followed him, was told to stop, and used the deadly force he's always dreamed of.

As a gun owner, I acknowledge that it should be a right to keep a firearm in your home that reasonably falls under the desire to own one for sport, collection, or profession/necessity. I also believe that the right doesn't even come close to being as important as the responsibility, and people like Zimmerman are not up to the responsibility. Enabling them with carrying laws and free pass "defense" laws like Florida's is only asking for trouble from the irresponsible.

Beach Bum wrote:

Now concealed carry laws are going to come under fire thanks to this though, because one idiot overstepped his bounds.

Fucking good. There has been approximately no good coming from concealed handguns, assault weapons, or idiotic gun nuts with action fantasies looking for trouble. I own several firearms, including two bolt-actions, a legal AK (here in PA, at least), and a revolver. I take them to the range for fun, and that's it. They're never stored loaded, their ammunition is kept in a separate part of the house, and if I ever had a burglar in my place, I'd call the police instead of putting myself and others in danger. I don't believe I have the right or responsibility to decide who lives or dies except for myself.

Who wants to have a handgun concealed on them? A person looking for trouble, whether justified or not. This guy said he respected law enforcement, but what he respected was his own vision of law enforcement. He looked at a lone kid, followed him without confronting him about who he was or if he was visiting, and expects that his 10 hours of training gives him the right to be a self-appointed detective.

You make quite a few assumptions here yourself, Greg.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 12:40 am

Greg the White wrote:

Funny how anyone who says "let's wait for the facts" is basically saying they immediately side for Zimmerman when all they have is a testimony that doesn't hold up with a recorded 911 call. As far as I'm concerned, this was initiated by Zimmerman, a guy with a worse history than some kid who got in trouble a few times (I accidentally took a utility knife home from shop one time, and got suspended for it. People are acting like this screwdriver was a concealed weapon, hypocrisy in itself. The rest of the kid's record is conjecture and maybes). He saw some kid, followed him, was told to stop, and used the deadly force he's always dreamed of.

As a gun owner, I acknowledge that it should be a right to keep a firearm in your home that reasonably falls under the desire to own one for sport, collection, or profession/necessity. I also believe that the right doesn't even come close to being as important as the responsibility, and people like Zimmerman are not up to the responsibility. Enabling them with carrying laws and free pass "defense" laws like Florida's is only asking for trouble from the irresponsible.

Beach Bum wrote:

Now concealed carry laws are going to come under fire thanks to this though, because one idiot overstepped his bounds.

Fucking good. There has been approximately no good coming from concealed handguns, assault weapons, or idiotic gun nuts with action fantasies looking for trouble. I own several firearms, including two bolt-actions, a legal AK (here in PA, at least), and a revolver. I take them to the range for fun, and that's it. They're never stored loaded, their ammunition is kept in a separate part of the house, and if I ever had a burglar in my place, I'd call the police instead of putting myself and others in danger. I don't believe I have the right or responsibility to decide who lives or dies except for myself.

Who wants to have a handgun concealed on them? A person looking for trouble, whether justified or not. This guy said he respected law enforcement, but what he respected was his own vision of law enforcement. He looked at a lone kid, followed him without confronting him about who he was or if he was visiting, and expects that his 10 hours of training gives him the right to be a self-appointed detective.

This is (probably) a stupid question, but why do you own a gun and ammunition if you won't use said gun to defend yourself if the situation called for it?

Wizard Joined: Jun 12 2009 Posts: 4209

It may not be as widespread as I think, but from what I see, most are calling this a hate crime on blacks from whites, when in fact Zimmerman is... Hispanic. Am I the only one who finds this perplexing and obnoxious?

On a different note, a lot of internet communities (places like 4chan and reddit in particular) are expecting this to turn into something like the L.A. riots. I normally don't pay much attention to these predictions, but if the media and social networking keep stoking the fire.. I'm not so sure nothing will happen. At the very least I think we can expect some sort of retaliation (more than likely that Black Panther group. They're trying to raise a militia and have put a $10,000 bounty on Zimmerman, last I read).

Thoughts?

Posted: Mar 28 2012 01:44 am

My thoughts are you need to stop citing 4chan and Reddit as sources on anything. Sad

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

Cameron wrote:

My thoughts are you need to stop citing 4chan and Reddit as sources on anything. Sad

QFT. Seriously, Drew.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 02:11 am

JoshWoodzy wrote:

Cameron wrote:

My thoughts are you need to stop citing 4chan and Reddit as sources on anything. Sad

QFT. Seriously, Drew.

I will third this.

Joined: Dec 18 2007 Posts: 154

Cattivo wrote:

Zimmerman was definitely looking for it, but apparently, according to evidence recently revealed, Zimmerman was giving up the search and approaching his car when Trayvon jumped him, punched him to the ground in one hit, and started banging his head against the sidewalk. In the panic, if I had a conceal carry license (my state is the only one without that law unfortunately), I would probably pull my gun out and shoot him to get him off me (although I would probably try to aim for his thigh).

Add to that the recent news that Trayvon has been suspended multiple times for vandalism, bringing a screwdiver (burglary implement) along with possibly stolen jewelry to school, and marijuana residue possession, it appears Trayvon was no angel. Considering this townhome development he was in was where his dad's fiance lives, it's then possible that he was responsible for the recent spat of robberies there whenever he visited, considering what he's been suspended for in the past.

This is all conjecture, though. All the facts need to come out before anyone makes any final conclusions. All I'm saying is don't condemn Zimmerman solely for this. Trayvon might have reacted badly to Zimmerman's overzealous patroling, or could have actually been a burglar anyway.

The media should let the police handle the investigation, without suddenly implying this country is on the precipice of a race war. I just bought my first gun last month. If I was sure my community was threatened by a criminal and if I was in danger, I would not hesitate using my revolver. I would hope I would be more wise while going about it than Zimmerman, though.

Pretty much this.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 08:13 am

Beach Bum wrote:

JoshWoodzy wrote:

Cameron wrote:

My thoughts are you need to stop citing 4chan and Reddit as sources on anything. Sad

QFT. Seriously, Drew.

I will third this.

And i will...fourth this.

4chan is just the Apocalypse of reason and common sense.

Title: The Self-Titler Joined: Aug 14 2010 Posts: 598

Cameron wrote:

My thoughts are you need to stop citing 4chan and Reddit as sources on anything. Sad

My thoughts are that I can't take you seriously with that sig. That looks like no Camwich I have ever seen.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 09:22 am

i'll_bite_your_ear wrote:

Beach Bum wrote:

JoshWoodzy wrote:

Cameron wrote:

My thoughts are you need to stop citing 4chan and Reddit as sources on anything. Sad

QFT. Seriously, Drew.

I will third this.

And i will...fourth this.

4chan is just the Apocalypse of reason and common sense.

I shall add to the chorus of disapproval here.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

The stand your ground law is more the problem then the concealed carry.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 10:23 am

Optimist With Doubts wrote:

The stand your ground law is more the problem then the concealed carry.

That is my understanding as well. I recall there being arguments as to what would happen in a case like this. I guess we will find out now.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Mar 28 2012 10:52 am

@om*d wrote:

Optimist With Doubts wrote:

The stand your ground law is more the problem then the concealed carry.

That is my understanding as well. I recall there being arguments as to what would happen in a case like this. I guess we will find out now.

No different from any other case where someone claims self defense. They just ignore the question of whether or not the defendant could have escaped the situation if the victim was facing deadly force.

I don't know how I feel about stand your ground. I can see where it can create problems (and I'm not sure where it applies here, from what I read Zimmerman couldn't escape), but something about just letting criminals do what they want irks me.

As for concealed carry...well, honestly, if you're going to carry a pistol, I think it's a good idea not to wear it out in the open. It's a little intimidating wearing a gun on your hip like an old west cowboy.

Quote:

I would probably pull my gun out and shoot him to get him off me (although I would probably try to aim for his thigh).

You do not draw and use a firearm unless your intent is to kill, and you do not aim for anything that is not the easiest target to hit (the torso).

Joined: Apr 14 2006 Location: Lake Michigan Posts: 3332

Greg the White wrote:

There has been approximately no good coming from concealed handguns.

Except for crime going down simultaneously wherever concealed carry laws are adopted. If there were only a few examples of this, it would be just a coincidence and an example of post hoc ergo propter hoc, but there are too many examples of this to discount it.

UsaSatsui wrote:

You do not draw and use a firearm unless your intent is to kill, and you do not aim for anything that is not the easiest target to hit (the torso).

I'm aware of this, but I'm still learning. My first impulse is not to kill, and hope that my aim improves so that I would be able to wound. I admit, this is probably deluded, and I'll have to abandon that thinking soon.

Posted: Mar 28 2012 06:14 pm

Quote:

This is (probably) a stupid question, but why do you own a gun and ammunition if you won't use said gun to defend yourself if the situation called for it?

Because guns are fucking awesome.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

So there is this

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3PHnDGPUlo

Wizard Joined: Jun 12 2009 Posts: 4209

I wasn't citing those places as a source. I'm not that dense. Come on, guys. I'm using them as examples (albeit extreme examples). I've seen the same thing popping up infrequently on other sites, too. Hell, people in my town and school are talking about it. There was a rally in Independence's plaza in support of Trayvon, which I believe a fight or two broke out at.

Point is, I'm not stupid enough to actually use places like 4chan as a credible source of info. I don't go there enough anymore to really know what's going on anyway.

But whatever you guys think is fine, too. I'm too tired to care right now.

Posted: Mar 29 2012 01:50 am

Optimist With Doubts wrote:

So there is this

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3PHnDGPUlo

You mean a video where a huge graphic covers up the 'evidence'? I'll admit, he doesn't look like a big chunker so much in the video, and when you can see the back of his head, there's not a mark on it, but I believe that fucker thought he was Dirty Harry and drew down on that kid after following him, which he was advised not to do by the police. I don't know the full story, likely never will, especially with how the media keeps twisting things, but I can draw my own conclusions, and if you disagree, whatever, that's your bag.

What I do know about where it happened is that Sanford is probably the asshole of Seminole County, if other places are like, appendages and such. Bunch of pill poppers and fucking good ol' boys in that town. I've been through there three or four times, and yeah, it was just a shitty, shitty place.

Posted: Mar 30 2012 03:12 pm

Spike Lee retweets a wrong address, and as a result, an elderly Florida couple is forced to flee their homes because their son had a similar name.

Quote:

Director Spike Lee has reached a settlement with the Florida couple whose address he re-tweeted thinking it belonged to George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who killed teen Trayvon Martin last month.

David and Elaine McClain told CNN a reporter came to their home Sunday looking for Zimmerman. The following day, they began receiving threatening letters.

...

Elaine McClain said they left their home to escape the harassment. She believes the confusion over their address stems from her son’s name, William George Zimmerman.

...

Lee apologized to the couple, both on Twitter and by phone, and has now agreed to compensate them, the McClain’s lawyer Matt Morgan told the Associated Press. The settlement’s terms have not been disclosed.

Absolutely disgusting how this ever transpired in the first place.

Posted: Mar 30 2012 03:21 pm

Well it looks like Spike Lee didn't...

*Puts on sunglasses*

Do The Right Thing

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

Posted: Mar 30 2012 04:01 pm

That couple should demand reparations.

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

Okay i've only just heard of this...How is this widely covered news in any way? Why is this such a fuss?

News of people getting shot is common place. That shit generally gets brushed under the carpet and here where guns are ILLEGAL you would think it would be more of a big deal.

This is just some stupid media sensation shit that everyone gets latched onto. Hate crime occurs every day and no one gives two fucks. This one has just been selected out of the hat.

Cattivo wrote:

Greg the White wrote:

There has been approximately no good coming from concealed handguns.

Except for crime going down simultaneously wherever concealed carry laws are adopted. If there were only a few examples of this, it would be just a coincidence and an example of post hoc ergo propter hoc, but there are too many examples of this to discount it.

I LOVE when people say this. Next time i hear of your tri-yearly school shooting in the US i will remember how crime is brought down by concealed gun laws.

What's even weirder is that where i live guns are illegal and yet there has never been a school shooting....ever.

What's EVEN WEIRDER is when there was one in Scotland and then made private gun ownership illegal. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre)

...and there has been no school shootings since.

OH BOY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting#History_of_School_Shootings_in_the_United_States LOOK AT THIS LIST.

Posted: Mar 30 2012 05:46 pm

If they tried to make private gun ownership illegal in America, Alowishus, people'd flip the fuck out. Seriously, it's part of the reason nobody's ballsy enough to invade the US; they realize that we're a bunch of nutty fucks packing heat.

Title: The Self-Titler Joined: Aug 14 2010 Posts: 598

What aeonic said, seriously.

Also, banning ownership completely and concealed carry laws are two completely different things. Of course it's harder to get guns when they are strictly illegal, but do you think a deranged kid gives any thought at all to concealed carry laws in his area before rampaging? Come on.

Joined: Aug 04 2009 Posts: 2515

Lol i discussed this with JoshWoodzy earlier. You all have an entirely different situation than to us. I can sort of sympathise.

It's not that i think "oh derp USA does it again". I just wish it wasn't the case the way things are for you guys. I wish that people weren't so retarded and just walked about shooting anyone.

I still think that gun ownership is partly to blame for this but it just sucks that society for you guys is the way it is. I really do wish it were the case that if private ownership was illegal that you wouldn't have the problems of people shooting you, be it, domestically, school shootings or whatever. It seems that you just have irrational crazies who would kill you anyway.

Such people like that do exist here but it never manifests in the way of people breaking into houses, killing you then looting your house.

If people want to loot our houses here, we just let them take the stuff. Very rarely is anyone ever killed in these scenarios.

Sarge wrote:

What aeonic said, seriously.

Also, banning ownership completely and concealed carry laws are two completely different things. Of course it's harder to get guns when they are strictly illegal, but do you think a deranged kid gives any thought at all to concealed carry laws in his area before rampaging? Come on.

I don't even need to consider concealed carrying. That shouldn't even be a consideration. Guns should just be illegal. I wish it was easy for me to say this and for it to come true but it's just not the case.

I also said to JoshWoodzy you know the USA is one of my favorite places. It's a seriously progressive country in a lot of aspects. Guns is an aspect of the US which is seriously backwards.

Europe i would say is miles ahead in terms of this, among other things e.g. socialized medicine. Just as how USA is miles ahead with regards to other things.

Just different societies i guess and it's easy for me to say this. You are a totally different kettle of fish. What works here may not work elsewhere. Though i am sure these things could be applied in some shape or form.