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Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

Apple is catering to the mobile crowd slightly with the mac "app" store and new gesture controls. Though for the most part it's well implemented. Though the less said about launch pad, the better.

Posted: Sep 21 2011 10:14 am

This looks horrible.

Win7 will be my new best friend for a while it looks like.

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

GPFontaine wrote:

Oh god...

Microsoft has gone full retard.

Nope, they did not. Now they have:

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/09/windows-8-secure-boot-will-complicate-linux-installs.ars

Ars Technica Writer wrote:

PC users who run Windows and Linux on the same machine will want to do some research before purchasing a Windows 8 computer. That's because systems with a "Designed for Windows 8" logo must ship with UEFI secure booting enabled—a move that prevents booting operating systems that aren’t signed by a trusted Certificate Authority.

This could pose a problem for Linux users, though in practice most can just change UEFI settings to disable secure boot before installing the open-source OS. But users will have to depend on hardware vendors to make this option possible in the first place.

Disabling secure boot

“Microsoft requires that machines conforming to the Windows 8 logo program and running a client version of Windows 8 ship with secure boot enabled,” Red Hat developer Matthew Garrett writes on his blog in reference to a recent presentation by Microsoft program manager Arie van der Hoeven. The Microsoft exec notes that UEFI and secure boot are “required for Windows 8 client” with the result that “all firmware and software in the boot process must be signed by a trusted Certificate Authority.”

Microsoft has a good reason for this. A “growing class of malware targets the boot path [and] often the only fix is to reinstall the operating system,” van der Hoeven said. “UEFI and secure boot harden the boot process [and] reduce the likelihood of bootkits, rootkits and ransomware.”

Importantly, though, Garrett writes that “there’s no indication that Microsoft will prevent vendors from providing firmware support for disabling this feature and running unsigned code.”

For many (and hopefully most) Windows 8 machines, this means that users have a good chance of successfully entering the UEFI settings interface to turn off secure boot. But this will depend on the hardware vendor.

“Experience indicates that many firmware vendors and OEMs are interested in providing only the minimum of firmware functionality required for their market,” Garrett writes. “It's almost certainly the case that some systems will ship with the option of disabling this. Equally, it's almost certainly the case that some systems won't. It's probably not worth panicking yet. But it is worth being concerned.”

Technically, vendors can ship Windows 8 PCs without meeting Microsoft's "designed for Windows 8" logo requirements, but major OEMs typically would not do that.

The Windows 8 developer tablet Microsoft handed out at this month’s BUILD conference did include the ability to turn off the secure boot process. This is reminiscent of Google’s Cr-48 Chromebook, which allowed users to turn off the Verified Boot process and install another operating system, though this involved flipping a physical switch instead of changing a software setting.

tl;dr: Microsoft trying to unfairly kill any competition as per usual.

Fuck you, Microsoft. FUCK YOU!

Windows 7 will be the last MS OS I will buy. Once that or my computer gets old, I'll get a new computer, and install Linux and XP on it.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

I had a nasty reply written out until I realized that you only need the UEFI setting to get a fucking sticker.

My computer for example is an i7 with BIOS. It will be 3.5 years old when Windows 8 ships and I will not even have UEFI on the motherboard. Windows 8 should still run, however the computer doesn't get a sticker.

As long as the setting can be turned off, then who cares? Also in scenarios where they do not offer the choice, my guess is that it will be on cheaper budget hardware and mobile devices.

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

If I can't run whatever I want on x86 or x64 hardware, it's useless to me. I couldn't care less about mobile devices, though.

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

GPFontaine wrote:

I had a nasty reply written out until I realized that you only need the UEFI setting to get a fucking sticker.

As long as the setting can be turned off, then who cares? Also in scenarios where they do not offer the choice, my guess is that it will be on cheaper budget hardware and mobile devices.[

Isn't that sticker required to bundle Windows 8 on a computer, just like the sticker required for bundling Windows 7 is required?

Also, yes you can turn UEFI off, but only on when the option is there, which it might not be for every computer, and if I get a computer without the option to disable that, I'll be very pissed off. Just like I got pissed off with my current computer when I discovered it had Hybrid SLI, with no option to disable it in any way/shape/form.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Mr. Satire wrote:

GPFontaine wrote:

I had a nasty reply written out until I realized that you only need the UEFI setting to get a fucking sticker.

As long as the setting can be turned off, then who cares? Also in scenarios where they do not offer the choice, my guess is that it will be on cheaper budget hardware and mobile devices.[

Isn't that sticker required to bundle Windows 8 on a computer, just like the sticker required for bundling Windows 7 is required?

Also, yes you can turn UEFI off, but only on when the option is there, which it might not be for every computer, and if I get a computer without the option to disable that, I'll be very pissed off. Just like I got pissed off with my current computer when I discovered it had Hybrid SLI, with no option to disable it in any way/shape/form.

Only for OEM computers. Not whiteboxes. In other words, A mom & pop shop could put a motherboard into a machine that has the setting turned off and then not put a sticker on it, yet they can sell a Windows 8 OS with the system. They simply can't claim that it is a Windows 8 certified system.

You cannot turn UEFI off. UEFI is a direct replacement for BIOS. You get one or you get the other. You change settings inside them.

As for the settings being enabled/disabled, lets just call it what it is.

OEM machines bought from big vendors are purchased by people who don't give a shit about these types of things. Syd is the prime example. He buys a computer and the OS that comes with it is the one that the system will retire with in a decade. On the flip side, people like you, and myself, we build computers and or select components from vendors that build them. You won't get conned into a machine that has this option turned off, because you will ask about it immediately.

Posted: Sep 25 2011 03:54 pm

I use it but turned off Metro UI. Now I'm back on windows 7 though, cause the thing about it only being a beta was pissing me off.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Anthraxinsoup wrote:

I use it but turned off Metro UI. Now I'm back on windows 7 though, cause the thing about it only being a beta was pissing me off.

It isn't a beta. It is a preview.

It is not designed as an OS replacement for anyone right now. It is for testing and development of the UI by developers who might want to publish for it when the OS launches.

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

Well, looks like the Consumer Preview is now out, so I installed it onto my old laptop. It wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be, but I still can't get over the fact that the desktop is an app. It's definitely improved from the developer preview.

To be honest, this would be good once the desktop form-factor dies out (if it ever does), and tablets computers other than the iPad become more popular.

I think I will be sticking with Windows 7 for quite a while.

And if you want to download the comsumer preview, look here.

Also, this is relevant:

Also, I checked, and it still has the broken WebDAV support that Windows 7 had. This is not a good thing.

Posted: Mar 03 2012 03:25 pm

Unless someone finds the "Switch to real PC GUI" button hidden somewhere in 8, I will run 7 into the ground. Then, when it doesn't work anymore, I will jump to Linux and pray that all the games I want to play work with WINE by then.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

Knyte wrote:

Unless someone finds the "Switch to real PC GUI" button hidden somewhere in 8, I will run 7 into the ground. Then, when it doesn't work anymore, I will jump to Linux and pray that all the games I want to play work with WINE by then.

By that time consume VDI will be the solution for you.

Example:
http://desktop.onlive.com/

My MSDN subscription is being renewed right now and I am moving offices, so I haven't taken the time to look into Windows 8 Customer Preview quiet yet. I plan to try to load it into a VM. I couldn't do that with the Developer Preview because of the UEFI requirement. I hope that this one will work.

Posted: Mar 03 2012 11:35 pm

So I installed this on a new partition the day it rolled, and while I don't see myself buying it, I also don't have the interface issues others seem to have. I learned pretty much how to do everything I needed within ten seconds.

That said I don't think it offers any functionality improvements over W7 that I feel are necessary enough to shell out cash for. Windows 7 was just so good that I can see myself skipping this entirely. That said, I expect Windows 9 to be really fantastic and iron out all the issues much like 7 did for Vista.

Posted: Mar 04 2012 12:00 am

From what I'm seeing I'm not really thinking this is something I'll be upgrading to. The UI seems to be similar to the crappy one Windows Media Center uses that looks designed for a touchscreen. Since I do not plan on owning a touchscreen monitor because they are useless for any real desktop use I doubt I need something designed for one.

I like Windows 7 and I think I'll stick with it until I'm forced to buy 9 or someone else comes out with an OS that can reliably play games and use programs that Windows can without using something like WINE.

Posted: Mar 04 2012 12:30 am

"Little boxes/on the hillside/little boxes/made of ticky tack..."

Seriously, this thing looks fucking horrible. I don't want to start my computer up, get it going and have it look like I'm on XBOX Live. I don't care if they're handing out free bj's with this, I'm just going to stick with W7 until, as HuffnPuff said, W9 comes out. I'd wager, at this rate, about two years?

Posted: Mar 04 2012 12:40 am

I'd buy it for the BJ and return it the day after.

Posted: Mar 04 2012 10:29 am

justdrop wrote:

I'd buy it for the BJ and return it the day after.

This.

Joined: Dec 06 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 11244

The interesting thing about the OS is that it really is an improvement in many ways over Windows 7, but they have muddied the interface so much that it isn't worth the trouble to have a better underlying OS.

Posted: Mar 04 2012 06:43 pm

Looks terrible.

Title: an horse Joined: Feb 26 2012 Posts: 170

I thnk the key to what they are doing is seamless itergration between PC, mobile and Xbox Dashboard. It could work. But I will be using Linux anyway - but Gnome3 and KDE are both looking like Tablet interfaces too. They're all for Tablet experiences. The PC as we know it is on the way out for most users is the point. I remember reading a good analogy about cars and trucks on the highway. Most people will drive cars (tablets) while fewer but more on the developmet side is the Desktop/trucks.

Posted: Mar 10 2012 01:09 am

I wonder if they are going to be surprised when everyone reacts to this like they did to Vista, with utter hate and disgust. I just don't see this one going over well with anyone that is used to how Windows looks now. Their average user is going to get this home and be like "What the fuck is this shit? This isn't Windows I got ripped off" and take their new computer back to the store and demand a real copy of Windows. Though I suppose if they want to try to break Apple and Android's grip on the tablet market they'll have an OS that will look designed for one.

Joined: Jun 08 2010 Location: Termina Field Posts: 1541

Lasher wrote:

I thnk the key to what they are doing is seamless itergration between PC, mobile and Xbox Dashboard. It could work. But I will be using Linux anyway - but Gnome3 and KDE are both looking like Tablet interfaces too. They're all for Tablet experiences. The PC as we know it is on the way out for most users is the point. I remember reading a good analogy about cars and trucks on the highway. Most people will drive cars (tablets) while fewer but more on the developmet side is the Desktop/trucks.

Agreed.

I really think that they should have made it so that there are different UIs for different types of computers. Just like Ubuntu did with their "Netbook Remix", until they decided to give everyone the netbook UI.

And I do have GNOME 3 on my computer, and while it does seem to have a tablet-oriented design, it at least doesn't remove the desktop metaphor unlike Windows 8. And at least it isn't a resource hog, unlike SOME window managers/UIs. (not mentioning any names!)