SydLexia.com - The Forums :: View topic - My local family planning clinic burned down

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

What is wrong with some people?

This isn't a question of being pro life or pro choice, this is terrorism.

Wizard Joined: Jun 12 2009 Posts: 4209

Eh. I don't think it said anywhere in that article that the damage was explicitly caused on purpose. While it certainly seems that way, I don't think it's a good idea to jump to conclusions. Don't you think it'd be counter-intuitive for pro-lifers to damage an abortion clinic, in that it'd seem rather destructive and harm support for their cause? Or something?

I'll be quiet now.

Posted: Jan 01 2012 11:52 pm

Drew Linky wrote:

Eh. I don't think it said anywhere in that article that the damage was explicitly caused on purpose. While it certainly seems that way, I don't think it's a good idea to jump to conclusions. Don't you think it'd be counter-intuitive for pro-lifers to damage an abortion clinic, in that it'd seem rather destructive and harm support for their cause? Or something?

I'll be quiet now.

Hun I dunno if you read the article completely but it says specifically that pro-lifers have bombed the place in the past. Another guy murdered people that worked there. The extremists have no qualms sinking to horrific lows to try to push their views.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

I would also like to say that I have seen the clinic, every day there are people yelling at people going in. I don't think it's insane to think that one of them got liquored up and decided to do what they felt was right.

Banned Joined: Sep 13 2008 Posts: 3129

I'd place odds at it was on purpose.
Thankfully nobody was hurt by the fire.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 01:02 am

Drew Linky wrote:

Don't you think it'd be counter-intuitive for pro-lifers to damage an abortion clinic, in that it'd seem rather destructive and harm support for their cause? Or something?

If someone believes abortion is murder, then I understand the rationale of blowing a place up. Even if you kill some people, you're saving more lives. That's how people who call themselves Christians can rationalize in their mind that killing is okay.

It's the classic argument: Is killing one person worth saving many?

Posted: Jan 02 2012 01:50 am

Klimbatize wrote:

Drew Linky wrote:

Don't you think it'd be counter-intuitive for pro-lifers to damage an abortion clinic, in that it'd seem rather destructive and harm support for their cause? Or something?

If someone believes abortion is murder, then I understand the rationale of blowing a place up. Even if you kill some people, you're saving more lives. That's how people who call themselves Christians can rationalize in their mind that killing is okay.

It's the classic argument: Is killing one person worth saving many?

In my honest opinion about this subject, I believe that abortion is not murder. Let me grab an on-line dictionary for a second...

Quote:

the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law.

Now if we look at the common law among countries involving murder, there are usually varying degrees of murder. First degree murder is in which where the murder is premeditated and of which where someone has planned to do so. Second degree murder is a murder in which where the murder is intentional, but it was not premeditated. Manslaughter is a murder in which the murder lacks the mens rea (guilty mind), therefore it is accidental.
If you look at abortion at a legal standing point, abortion fits none of these criteria. The mother does not physically plan to murder her foetus, neither does she do so out of rage or an accident. The mother simply cannot handle the mental and physical stresses of having the burden of a child, and it is both better for the mother and the child. What these pro-life people don't seem to understand that abortions help society as a whole. Usually mothers that lack the maturity and responsibility of raising a child end up raising it wrong. At the very least these children will grow up to have problems, in the most extreme cases they will end up criminals.
If we go with the most extreme case, say for example the child ends up becoming a serial killer, that will cost the lives of innocent people. The ideology of being pro-life is extremely flawed because it is hypocritical, by aborting a future criminal, you are preventing loss from society.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 03:29 am

Worse things have happened.

...like late term abortions.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 04:10 am

Buzz_Killington wrote:

Klimbatize wrote:

Drew Linky wrote:

Don't you think it'd be counter-intuitive for pro-lifers to damage an abortion clinic, in that it'd seem rather destructive and harm support for their cause? Or something?

If someone believes abortion is murder, then I understand the rationale of blowing a place up. Even if you kill some people, you're saving more lives. That's how people who call themselves Christians can rationalize in their mind that killing is okay.

It's the classic argument: Is killing one person worth saving many?

In my honest opinion about this subject, I believe that abortion is not murder. Let me grab an on-line dictionary for a second...

Quote:

the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law.

Now if we look at the common law among countries involving murder, there are usually varying degrees of murder. First degree murder is in which where the murder is premeditated and of which where someone has planned to do so. Second degree murder is a murder in which where the murder is intentional, but it was not premeditated. Manslaughter is a murder in which the murder lacks the mens rea (guilty mind), therefore it is accidental.
If you look at abortion at a legal standing point, abortion fits none of these criteria. The mother does not physically plan to murder her foetus, neither does she do so out of rage or an accident. The mother simply cannot handle the mental and physical stresses of having the burden of a child, and it is both better for the mother and the child. What these pro-life people don't seem to understand that abortions help society as a whole. Usually mothers that lack the maturity and responsibility of raising a child end up raising it wrong. At the very least these children will grow up to have problems, in the most extreme cases they will end up criminals.
If we go with the most extreme case, say for example the child ends up becoming a serial killer, that will cost the lives of innocent people. The ideology of being pro-life is extremely flawed because it is hypocritical, by aborting a future criminal, you are preventing loss from society.

Well, you've missed my point entirely. I wasn't arguing for or against abortion. I said if people view abortion as murder (in the moral sense, not legal) then they can justify blowing up a few buildings to save innocent lives. Telling these people that "Hey, abortion's legal and is not murder" obviously has no bearing on their decision-making. They commit a crime to stop a bigger injustice, in their mind.

I'm not saying I agree with this rationale at all. I don't. I was answering Drew's question about these people being counter-productive.

Joined: Apr 09 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3112

Depressing as hell. Planned Parenthood actually helped my cousin out a lot. She had a kid out of wedlock, and the dad ran off a few months before the kid was due. Planned Parenthood helped her with medical stuff, and got her a new job so that she could support the kid. They actually convinced her to keep the child and helped her find ways of supporting him.

Yeah, fuck those evil baby-killers.

UsaSatsui's Youtube Channel · Posted: Jan 02 2012 06:41 am

The right to life apparently begins at conception and ends at birth.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 07:17 am

I'm not pro abortion but I think there are certain circumstances where it should be allowed, such as rape or if both the parents are really ugly.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

Jack Slater wrote:

Worse things have happened.

...like late term abortions.

You sure are edgy Jack.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 09:24 am

I'm not a fan of abortion, but you know what? It's legal. But you know what's never been legal in any just society? Arson.

Burning down an abortion clinic isn't going to stop abortions. If someone really wanted one, they'd find another place to get one. And if I'm a pregnant lady who is on the fence about getting an abortion and I see this story, I'm definitely going to get an abortion. Why? Because I don't want to bring a baby into world with so much hate in it. Also the father was a total dudebro.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 10:07 am

Optimist With Doubts wrote:

Jack Slater wrote:

Worse things have happened.

...like late term abortions.

You sure are edgy Jack.

Either that, or he's a fan of Christopher Titus' newer material.

As for the burning of the clinic, some people are just overzealous.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 10:15 am

What's Titus up to these days?

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm8XoXcGlOc

Posted: Jan 02 2012 10:20 am

Syd Lexia wrote:

What's Titus up to these days?

Comedy Central recently aired his new special "Neverlution" which had a bit on late-term abortions ensuring that kids would be perfect under the threat of such a thing.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 10:23 am

Ah.

Well, that was an old school parenting threat. "I brought you into this world, and I can take you out of it!"

Posted: Jan 02 2012 01:11 pm

Optimist With Doubts wrote:

Jack Slater wrote:

Worse things have happened.

...like late term abortions.

You sure are edgy Jack.

I can be. Depends on the issue.

I personally have no problem with an abortion in the first trimester or so, before it has a functioning central nervous system. If you want to talk about souls, I'd say the soul couldn't interface with it's physical manifestation before that. So, that's reasonable to me. I'm also a proponent of eugenics, so I'm not a "everybody breed with reckless abandon" kinda guy either.

But... I think the majority of people who consider themselves "pro-choice" are little more than brainwashed automatons who were told one thing and just keep repeating it, without ever putting some thought into IF they even agree with it. I'm typing this on a phone so I cannot be as thorough as I would like, maybe I'll come back later on a comp and fully explore my thoughts on the matter. I'll try to summarize: my son was born six weeks premature, he was thin and small, looked more alien than a baby, yet he survived fine. Other people on this world were born up to four months premature, and with science they lived.

The thing you are aborting is not a thing. It is a human life. If you do not feel sorrow for ending it, you have no humanity left. I can completely understand the 1001 reasons to do it, but that doesn't take away the gravity of what you're doing. I think people have a need to make light of it, because they feel guilt and are too proud or sociopathic to admit it. I understand why someone would get an abortion.

Now, I don't understand why someone would choose to make their living performing them. If you expect me to shed tears for those people, you'll be waiting until after the sun burns out.

Like I said, worse things have happened. Children in utero have been murdered, their brains bludgeoned and their bodies vacuumed out to be thrown in a fucking garbage bin. Me, feel sorry for the people doing that getting capped or burned? HA HA FUCKING HA.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

Just stop posting in this thread please. All you are trying to do is start a flame war.

Joined: May 22 2008 Location: Goshen, VA Posts: 6544

So they are sociopaths, but you not being able to feel a shred of sadness at the murder of other human beings just because of their social views isn't? Well by golly ain't that bat shit retarded.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 01:54 pm

Quote:

Well, you've missed my point entirely. I wasn't arguing for or against abortion. I said if people view abortion as murder (in the moral sense, not legal) then they can justify blowing up a few buildings to save innocent lives. Telling these people that "Hey, abortion's legal and is not murder" obviously has no bearing on their decision-making. They commit a crime to stop a bigger injustice, in their mind.

I'm not saying I agree with this rationale at all. I don't. I was answering Drew's question about these people being counter-productive.

I wasn't arguing against anyone either, but I was stating my point on how silly forcing mother's to conceive children is. It just makes it worse how people would destroy a clinic like that, you know who we can compare them to? Al' Qaeda Muslims. The Al' Qaeda are similar because, like mentioned before, they are both extremists. I've met regular Muslims and they are actually really good people, they regularly don't have intentions to harm people. The same thing applies with pro-life people, it's fine if you disagree with it, but in no way does it give you the right to destroy another's property and potentially kill someone.

Anyway, I'm going to leave this thread before a huge flame war starts.

Edit: I fucked up on the quote system, so your name is not in it.

Posted: Jan 02 2012 02:00 pm

joshwoodzy wrote:

So they are sociopaths, but you not being able to feel a shred of sadness at the murder of other human beings just because of their social views isn't? Well by golly ain't that bat shit retarded.

If I stop and think about it, without the heat of anger, yeah I'll feel bad that anyone was killed. I don't see how it's illogical to think that one can make choices in life to deserve such a consequence. We all make choices, and any one of us could make a.choice tomorrow that the state decides we should die for. Doubt you law and order folks would feel sorry for the person making that choice. Yet I'm supposed to feel just as bad for adults who made their choice, as the dead children who never even got a chance to make any.

I am not trying to start a flame war. I'm sharing my opinions. Clearly I am the dissenting view, and we must never ever have one of those, so if it will make you feel better, I'll leave it at this and you can rest safely in your own views.

Title: Titlating Joined: Dec 17 2007 Posts: 5042

No, you are not just dissenting, you are deliberately drawing ire. There have been posters in this very thread that have said they are against abortions.

The argument here is that is it ok to burn down a building to suit your own views. The law says no.

Your same argument could say it's ok to kill anyone who supports abortion in anyway.