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FNJ
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Joined: Jun 07 2006
Posts: 12294
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Dr. Jeebus wrote: |
Was that put in the wrong thread? I'm sure it's meant as a joke, but it looks more like a spam ad. |
I was scrolling through all these giant ass posts and felt like I should ocntribute something, so I grabbed whatwever was on wikipedia and pasted it.
don't tell me you actualyl read teh whole thing.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
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Murdar Machene
New Member
Title: bimmy
Joined: Nov 06 2005
Location: the black warriors turf
Posts: 3207
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I can explain math in less than 2 pages:
2+2 = 4
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Valdronius
Moderator
Title: SydLexia COO
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 4465
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Anyone want me to do a proof by induction? Anybody?
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Klimbatize wrote: |
A Hispanic dude living in Arizona knows a lot of Latinas? That's fucking odd. |
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lavalarva
2011 SNES Champ
Joined: Dec 04 2006
Posts: 1929
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By JonSnow's logic of physics controlling all matter, we could say this :
1- JonSnow is made of matter
2- Dr. Jeebus is made of matter
3- Then, JonSnow and Dr. Jeebus should both do exactly the same thing all the time.
Replace Dr. Jeebus by just about anything and it'll follow JonSnow's logic.
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
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Im a very small percentage of the atomic remains of a stegosaurus. It only bothers me when it gets cold.
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Lord Fool
Joined: Jun 10 2006
Posts: 6
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Let's fuck the laws of physics argument and instead babble about causality.
Simply put, every action causes a reaction, which in turn causes another reaction, etc. If I throw a rock out of my window, it will eventually hit the ground because Earth's gravity pulls it down. It's inevitable. And, if one knew all the information about the situation (yes, basically everything about the universe), one could calculate exactly how, where and when the rock hits the ground. And, if it was possible to perfectly replicate all the circumstances and throw the rock again, it would hit the exact same place. There's no reason think otherwise.
The same applies to human mind, which, as stated previously, is just some chemical and electromagnetic activity in human brain. It's somewhat complicated to our understandig, but in the end it's siply a machine that will react to certain things in a certain way. There's no reason to think that, if a mind could be exposed to the exact same circumstances twice, it wouldn't react the exact same way. And again, the mind's behaviour could be calculated in advance by the guy who had all the information about the mind and the circumstances.
So, the stupid question here is: If all your choices can be calculated in advance, how free can you call your will?
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Murdar Machene
New Member
Title: bimmy
Joined: Nov 06 2005
Location: the black warriors turf
Posts: 3207
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Lord Fool wrote: |
There's no reason to think that, if a mind could be exposed to the exact same circumstances twice, it wouldn't react the exact same way. |
That's entirely up for debate. It's an interesting question, but you haven't emperically proven anything.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
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SOMEONE'S been watching the Matrix and now they think they're smart. Yeah, cause and effect exists. That's obvious. If I strike a match, it will light. I don't think anyone will argue that. Unfortunately, you didn't throw out the physics argument, you just made it again. I'm sure that given perfect information you can know what my tendencies are, but people do break character sometimes, and that's because free will gives them their choice to do things that may not have seemed like their most likely action.
And don't even say that that means actions are random either, because that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. Just because something isn't directly related to cause and effect (though decisions made by free will are a cause, as well as having several other causes effecting but not determining them) doesn't mean it's random. Nothing says that the universe has to either be completely predetermined or completely random, but that's the argument that fatalists (or people arguing causality as you'll say to make yourself sound smarter) use as a rejection of free will; that if it isn't cause and effect then it's all random. And that makes less sense than anything RegalSin said.
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dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com - Updated sometimes, but on hiatus!
UsaSatsui wrote: |
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus |
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Lord Fool
Joined: Jun 10 2006
Posts: 6
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Would you believe if I said that I didn't steal that from the Matrix movies? Seriously, the damn films' existence really undermines my efforts of thinking I'm smart.
Still, I don't think you've invalidated my babblings. If you "broke out of character" and surprised the guy who's supposed to predict your actions, then the guy didn't have perfect knowledge in the first place.
And no, I wasn't going to say that everything is random. I just rambled about causality and inevitability, why would I now start about everything being random? The thought of free will not existing isn't so precious to me that I'd throw anything to back it up. Hell, I don't even like it, so feel free to try and shoot it down.
BTW, this isn't about predeterminism either; it suggests the existence of some Plan about how everything should go, which is not necessary for causality and inevitability.
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Sock
Title: Master Fornicator
Joined: Mar 12 2006
Location: The Skies Above
Posts: 989
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Pavel Vladimirovich Bure (Russian: Павел Владимирович Буре) (The Russian Rocket) (born on March 31, 1971 in Moscow, USSR (now Moscow, Russia)) is a former professional ice hockey player. He was a right winger and played in the National Hockey League (NHL), as well as for the Soviet Union and Russia internationally. Presently, he serves a managerial role with Russia's Olympic team where the team finished 4th in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin, Italy. The highlight of the tournament for the team was beating Canada 2-0 in the quarterfinal. He won a bronze medal in the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City and a silver medal in the 1998 Winter Olympics in Nagano. During his carrier in the NHL, he played for the Vancouver Canucks, Florida Panthers and New York Rangers. During many years of his career, he was known as 'the most exciting player in hockey', due to his explosive speed and precise, fast offensive moves.
Biography
Pavel was named after his great-grandfather, a watchmaker to Tsar Alexander III. Bure's family made precious watches for the tsars from 1815-1917. In 1996, Bure presented 3 of the 50 gold replicas of the company's last model to then-Russian President Boris Yeltsin, Prime Minister Viktor Chernomyrdin and Moscow mayor Yuriy Luzhkov.
Bure comes from an athletic family; his father, Vladimir Bure, was an Olympic swimmer who competed for the Soviet Union in the 1968, 1972, and 1976 Olympic Games. In the '72 Games he won the bronze medal (100m), and lost the gold by half a second to swimming legend Mark Spitz. Pavel Bure's younger brother, Valeri Bure, also plays in the NHL.
Bure began his hockey career at 16, playing for the Soviet Red Army team.
Bure has had a relationship with tennis player Anna Kournikova, which ended in a broken engagement.
Bure did the first ever Sports Live Chat on the Internet in Canada in 1995 with Bob Kerstein, CIO of the Vancouver Canucks.
Playing career
Nicknamed The Russian Rocket for his speed and skill, Bure was picked 113th overall in the 6th round of the 1989 NHL Entry Draft by the Vancouver Canucks out of the Central Red Army. He started playing for the Canucks in the 1991-92 NHL season. Bure was awarded the Calder Memorial Trophy as rookie of the year for 1991-92. He was an integral part of the Vancouver Canucks' scoring department for many years to come, helping them all the way to the Stanley Cup Finals in 1994. Considered one of the best playoff series in NHL history, Bure's blazing rushes up the ice was one of the highlights.
On January 17, 1999, he was traded to the Florida Panthers with Bret Hedican, Brad Ference, and Vancouver's 3rd round choice in the 2000 NHL Entry Draft for Ed Jovanovski, Dave Gagner, Mike Brown, Kevin Weekes, and Florida's first round draft choice in the 2000 draft. On March 18, 2002, Bure was acquired by the New York Rangers along with Florida's 2nd round pick in the 2002 draft for Igor Ulanov, Filip Novak and the Rangers' 1st and 2nd round choices in the draft and a 4th round choice in the 2003 draft. Plagued by injuries throughout his career, he did not play in the 2003-04 NHL season due to a lingering knee injury even after two operations. On November 1, 2005, Bure announced his retirement from professional hockey due to complications with his injured knee (injury sustained in 2003). At the same time, it was announced that Bure would be the general manager of Russia's ice hockey team at the 2006 Winter Olympics.
Mafia Ties
In Post-Soviet Russia, Pavel Bure has become an influential figure and a business partner with Anzor Kikalishvili.
Kikalishvili is the head of the 21st Century Association, which has been named by the Russian government, Kroll Associates, Inc., the FBI, and the US senate as the top criminal organization in Russia. Kikalishvili has been specifically named by U.S. law enforcement and the U.S. senate as a top Russian mobster. In FBI wiretaps in Miami he was caught threatening to skin someone alive.
Kikalishvili has declared himself "Bure's spiritual father". When Kikalishvili ran for political office, posters of Bure and Kikalishvili with their arms around each other's shoulders were seen everywhere in Moscow with the caption "The Future belongs to the 21st Century".
Libel Lawsuits
In 2001 a Moscow based newspaper called the eXile published an article claiming Bure broke-up with Anna Kournikova after discovering she had two vaginas. Bure successfully sued the eXile under Russian libel law for 500,000 rubles (about US$10,000) in damages. The eXile claimed that the original article was a parody and suggested Pavel Bure's influential status may have compromised the judgement.
In 2005, Bure again launched another Kournikova related lawsuit, this time against perfume chain Arbat Prestige for defamation. Bure seeks 300,000,000 rubles in damages.
Man, Pavel Bure rocks at hockey, but what an asshole.
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 There never was an image here, what the fuck are you talking about? |
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Valdronius
Moderator
Title: SydLexia COO
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 4465
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Sock wrote: |
Man, Pavel Bure rocks at hockey, but what an asshole. |
And his brother is married to DJ Tanner. Can you say Hottt?
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Klimbatize wrote: |
A Hispanic dude living in Arizona knows a lot of Latinas? That's fucking odd. |
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Murdar Machene
New Member
Title: bimmy
Joined: Nov 06 2005
Location: the black warriors turf
Posts: 3207
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Somehow I missed this opportunity...
Valdronius wrote: |
Anyone want me to do a proof by induction? Anybody? |
No thanks I took freshmen level philosophy already
Unless you were being ironic at how stupidly easy that would be.
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FNJ
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Joined: Jun 07 2006
Posts: 12294
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JonSnow
Joined: Nov 03 2006
Posts: 763
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lavalarva wrote: |
By JonSnow's logic of physics controlling all matter, we could say this :
1- JonSnow is made of matter
2- Dr. Jeebus is made of matter
3- Then, JonSnow and Dr. Jeebus should both do exactly the same thing all the time.
Replace Dr. Jeebus by just about anything and it'll follow JonSnow's logic. |
How is that the same?
I said ALL MATTER IS CONTROLLED, EVERY SINGLE MOVMENT OF IT, BY PHYSICAL LAWS, THERE IS NO OUTSIDE FORCE ACTING UPON BUT THOSE FORCES THEREFORE NO ENTITY COMPRISED OF MATTER CAN DO ANY ACT BUT THOSE ACTS WHICH ARE FORCED UPON BY THOSE PHYSICAL LAWS. MEANING FROM THE START OF YOUR EXISTENCE EVERYTHING WAS MAPPED OUT, FATALISM.
That doesn't mean a rock has to move at the same speed of a feather if it's falling and the wind is blowing.. it means both actions had no room for will in them because all their actions were dictated by the LAWS of physics...
Therefore if you agree with science you deny will. Simple. No person in the world would disagree with me.
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 The One Truth Will Prevail
Brawl Code: 1805-1876-7506 |
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Murdar Machene
New Member
Title: bimmy
Joined: Nov 06 2005
Location: the black warriors turf
Posts: 3207
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People had to use their will to will themselves into discovering science. Shut up idiot
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Cattivo
Joined: Apr 14 2006
Location: Lake Michigan
Posts: 3332
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JonSnow wrote: |
Therefore if you agree with science you deny will. Simple. No person in the world would disagree with me. |
Actually, I would assume 99.9% of the world disagrees with you.
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Valdronius
Moderator
Title: SydLexia COO
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 4465
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Didn't we already come to a concensus that Humans are not composed entirely of matter?
Also, writing in all caps hurts my brain. Almost as much as StAgGeReD cApS.
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Klimbatize wrote: |
A Hispanic dude living in Arizona knows a lot of Latinas? That's fucking odd. |
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Chrisby
Joined: Mar 31 2006
Location: Where my computer is.
Posts: 1262
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I fInD iT vErY dIfFiCuLt To TyPe LiKe ThIs. HoW dOeS aNyOnE dO iT aT aLl, LeT aLoNe AlL oF tHe FrEaKiNg TiMe?
Seriously.
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TheRoboSleuth
Title: Sleuth Mark IV
Joined: Aug 08 2006
Location: The Gritty Future
Posts: 2739
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What is free will? Is there a lump in the brain that controls it? Does the entire brain have potential for it, including the near automated parts? Does some of the brain have a nerve bundle or such that grants it? For people, is free will the part of the brain that learns and reacts, versus the blunt activity of instinct? Or is it the voice that tells you not to make a bad decision? Can their be free will at all, is it all just energy running through paths in the brain constructed in childhood?
The problem with free will is that its a concept that is very difficult to detect or define. What this means is that there is a very limited ability to test for it.
As for the nature of the universe, most things in the universe are semi-automated. Stars form and die away with great regularity, planets form of their own accord, the universe seems to run like clockwork. This is all spontaneous, the interaction of the forces of the universe on each other.
I don't worry about this sort of thing. If you found out there was no free will, would you suddenly become a passenger to your own body? What if you were destined to go to McDonald's, and like the food there? Does it make it any less tasty?
If there is no free will, take delight in the knowledge that you might be the most elaborate reaction ever produced by carbon. Imagine if you could pour one substance into another to produce not only George Orwell but George Orwell doing the voice of unicron, as well as the sound studio it was filmed in and the cow that was fed to him, plus the wood for the barrel that held the whiskey that he drank.
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Char Aznable
Title: Char Classicâ„¢
Joined: Jul 24 2006
Location: Robot Boombox HQ
Posts: 7542
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Jon, we've proved you wrong over and over and over, and I for one got tired of arguing with you a long time ago. Please, realize that you're wrong, and stop attempting to make sense of your own convoluted babbling; like some moron who keeps running into a door marked "pull", not once thinking that maybe you have to stop and open it using the handle. C'mon Jon, use that handle. Open the door.
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Dr. Jeebus
Moderator
Title: SLF Harbinger of Death
Joined: Sep 03 2005
Location: Wakefield, MA
Posts: 5228
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Oh yeah, in all the mess I forgot to point this out Jon: your brain is full of electrical impulses and shit, and energy isn't matter. Unless you're going to tell me you know how much potential energy weights now
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dr.jeebus.sydlexia.com - Updated sometimes, but on hiatus!
UsaSatsui wrote: |
The three greatest heels in history...Andy Kaufman, Triple H, and Dr. Jeebus |
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FNJ
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Joined: Jun 07 2006
Posts: 12294
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Tebor
Moderator
Title: Master of the Universe
Joined: Aug 22 2005
Location: Gotham City
Posts: 6088
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Jew, you've just started the Clone Wars. Now the Jedi will be hunted down and slaughtered. Thanks a ton.
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 "If you will not tell me, I will hurt people!!!" -Nuclear Man
"Do you hear? The alpha and the omega. Death and rebirth. And as you die, so will I be reborn!" - Skeletor
8341 unread forum updates since I left (2/7/14)... Uh-oh. |
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FNJ
2010 SLF Tag Champ
Joined: Jun 07 2006
Posts: 12294
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pfft. it was relevant.
I even cited my references!
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