I've been on hiatus while this album came out. I haven't got a chance to pick it up yet. I've only heard leaks. But from what I have heard, I'd have to agree with a lot of what Syd and Ross are saying.

I'm also getting tired of the whole, "Its not GNR without...." BS. Most people don't just say Slash. They usually include other names too. What they really mean is just Slash. Honestly, does it matter if Duff is in the band? Izzy left. Gilby was just fine. Adler was badass, but Sorum was just fine. To pretend Duff is irreplacable is nonsense. Who they really mean is Slash. But I say if Van Halen can be successful without Roth and AC/DC can be successful without Bon Scott, why not GNR sans Slash. Last time I checked Robin Finck, Bumblefoot, and Buckethead sound pretty damn good to me. The current lineup may not have as much creative control as some past members may have had, but they certainly aren't garbage. Say what you want about Axl's decisions, his creativity, his choices, whatever, but don't overlook the talent of some of these guys in the band just because its not what you're used to.

Duncan wrote:

Anyone know when Sebastian Bach became Axl Rose's number one cheerleader and scrotum sucker?

I've actually killed people for less.

ross_rifle113 wrote:

I was surprised to find out that Finck and Buckethead did the majority of the solos and are a lot more soulful, bluesy players than I thought. I always knew Buckethead was more than just a robot, but the solo in 'This I Love' was all Finck, and it's AMAZING.

I think Finck is a badass. The only lead guitar I love more than Slash is Eddie. But as much as I like Slash, I think the guys they've got did an amazing job on this album. Its still early, but it feels like they are getting completely overlooked just because they aren't Slash.

I thought I would also add that where I think guys like Slash, Duff, and Izzy will be most missed is the things they bring to the table creatively. I don't think there is anything they can do with an instrument that probably can't be emulated by somebody else. Its what they contribute behind the scenes that will be hard to duplicate. Even though I'm sure he has always ran the show, this album really is the Axl Rose Project. If that's the case, he's probably better off without those guys (only in that context).

Syd Lexia wrote:

Chuck Klosterman's review of Chinese Democracy: http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/chuck_klosterman_reviews

I just now read this review. I love it. Its almost a perfect review

I can appreciate what you are saying. Like I said, those guys will be missed. I just think it is more on the creative side. There is no doubt they were all good at what they do, but they seemed to have the ability to put together some great stuff from the writing to the arrangement. So a lot of us will miss them and what they can bring to the table.

But maybe (and I don't know) Axl doesn't miss them. Maybe he wanted things a certain way. I certainly don't think it would have taken so long to put the album out. It would have likely rocked more than it does. But I get the feeling (and again, I don't reallyknow) that Axl was trying to do something else here. Maybe Chinese Democracy is to Axl what Pet Sounds is to Brian Wilson.

Also, you're right about each having their own unique sound. For example, sure Adler and Sorum sound different. But I don't think that GNR with Sorum is any less GNR than the band with Adler. Its just slightly different. Some may prefer one to the other. Personally, I like both. When I said what I did about there not being anything those guys did with their instruments (playing style, not on the creative end) that can't be emulated, I do believe that. But I don't think that is what Axl would do. I think he is going to make it sound how he wants and then make it happen. I think if he wanted it to sound more like AFD or UYI, it potentially could have. That is going to be a problem with some people. Obviously not you as you seem to really like it (as do I with what I've heard).

UYI was so different from AFD, but it still sounded like GNR. This is obviously different than both, but to me, it still sounds like GNR. In fact, GNR has been so diverse that I would bet money that if you took this album and the other albums and shuffled the songs on a playlist, a lot of people (aside from those of us who know all the tracks and on which album they belong) wouldn't be able to tell some of this from some of that.

When it comes down to the band members themselves, I think the general public would be far more accepting if the change were more gradual. The differences may have still been apparent but felt less drastic if they would have been putting material out over the last however many years. Maybe if they would have been making music more frequently since Tommy Stinson replaced Duff McKagan in '98, perhaps Tommy's name would be just as much associated with GNR as Duff. Its hard to say because due to the lack of activity, nobody even knows he is in the band. But he has almost been in the band for as long as Duff was and almost as long as he was with The Replacements.

I think I feel a lot of the things most people do, but while a lot of people don't think it should be GNR while I do. Maybe if the group would have disbanned completely at one point and then Axl just started a new band under the GNR name, it may bother me a little more. But that's not exactly how it happened. So when do you drop the GNR name? By the time Slash left in '96? After Duff leaves in '98? I dunno. If they were putting out material we may have been used to some of the new guys by the time some of the older ones were leaving. But some of these guys have been a part of the band for while, likely getting a lot of time in the studio with Axl. So maybe in his mind, these guys are GNR.

GPFontaine wrote:

If you want to know how much of this stuff is Axl and how much is outside influence, we may get to find out. http://heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=200 In 1999 Axl re-recorded Appetite for Destruction without any original GNR members. That would give a good idea as to what Axl has going on in his head. Well... at least 10 years ago.

Does anybody else get the feeling that Axl thinks he knows exactly what he wants but doesn't really have a clue? He seems like the kind of person who would have a certain vision but then becomes very indecisive. That would help explain why it takes him over a decade to put out an album.

I remember hearing something about him rerecording AFD. I wonder if any of it ever got leaked. I would love to hear it.

That was a good read.

I say we break in his crib and hoist his shit. Even if we don't find the re-recording of AFD, we're bound to find some other cool shit.

GPFontaine wrote:

scamrock wrote: I say we break in his crib and hoist his shit. Even if we don't find the re-recording of AFD, we're bound to find some other cool shit. LOL What makes you think that getting in wouldn't require a full scale army? The dude is super paranoid. He has got that shit locked up tighter than a __________________ . I realized that I shouldn't write that unless it is in the NWO.

You're right. Those spy kits from Toys R Us probably won't be enough. This is gonna take some Lee Harvey Oswald, fake the moon landing, CIA shit. Maybe whoever it was from the CIA that was coming to this site is a GNR fan too.

Hell, he probably has so many different musicians coming and going experimenting with different sounds, just tell him you play the Jew's harp or the spoons or something and maybe he'll just let you in.

He's probably got secret tunnels and shit.