Drew Linky wrote:

Alow, the argument I hear a lot is that, whether we outlawed guns or not, people who wanted them would find a way to get them. So making it illegal would make the upstanding citizens unable to protect themselves from the people who don't give a fuck.

You see this is where i would totally disagree with that statement but then it's been pointed out to me that i don't appreciate USAs situation.

This is true because i don't live there and therefore cannot know first hand. All i say is from a Non-American viewpoint which is the reason why people like myself and others around the world criticise US owning guns - albeit without that knowledge.

We directly compare ourselves to the USA and we are like well if we can do it, then why can't you do it.

You see where i live and indeed in Europe pretty much as a whole the whole "protect yourself from other people by owning a gun" is completely nonsensical.

We function here without owning guns, it's pretty heavily regulated so people can't own guns and we have very few shootings. In the UK i'm pretty there there was one a year or so ago and that was it. No others. So it would seem to support that - i am not saying that this is correct however.

Like here we just surrender are stuff, there is none of this "YOU'RE REMOVING OUR FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS" or any of that shit because we just don't have it. That to us is a non-factor.

We also don't need to defend ourselves and that's the whole thing. If my house was getting robbed and i wake up and the guy is standing there with a gun (which i will point out basically never happens here) i would just let him take all the shit and phone the police. Insurance would probably cover a lot of the losses.

However what confuses us about the states is that you think you have to have some sort of stand off and not let them take anything risking your own lives. Maybe you don't have insurance, maybe your policing system will do nothing - i don't know. That's how that shit rolls here.

So the whole idea of having to defend or whatever is just a non-issue here.

The USA is a totally different place to here. It's weird sometimes to think of English speaking places with different cultures and ideals but between Ireland and USA we are way different, in social norms etc. which is why sometimes stuff i say on here can seem a bit weird or extreme.

Like maybe you have serious crime problems or huge numbers of sociopaths or whatever. That shit just doesn't happen here, people don't roll around with guns and kill other people in gang wars - very usually the Troubles here is an exception but that was basically a civil war and not just a random one off of some guys gunning people down.

...and to people here our view would be generally that well we have virtually no shootings and we don't give out guns therefore that's the solution. That's just the way it is. Even illegal gun ownership is not such a problem here.

You just have a unique scenario and in that i can get frustrated and be like "you are all fucking idiots with your guns, you give guns and then people get shot and then you cry about it rinse and repeat".

That is not particularly fair but i would honestly say that although you may need guns that the fact that gun ownership is legal that it would still have at least some relevance into shootings.

If you think that gun availability isn't even slightly related to shootings then there is something wrong with you.

Greg the White wrote:

These are only a few, but they are some big differences beyond just "England/Europe has less guns, so gun control will end it."

I know there are way more differences than that. I'm just tired and can't write forever. There is only so much i know/can be bothered discussing lol.

Like i say i stated it from solely an European/Irish standpoint.

Etch wrote:

And, am I the only one who is getting sick of European holier-than-thou self-righteousness about owning guns. They act like they chose not to have them instead of their governments taking it from them. As if they are morally superior and wouldn't own a gun if they had the choice. Those assholes riot at the drop of a hat. Tuition went up a few dollars? Riot. Lost the soccer game? Riot. Won the soccer game? Riot. Hell, Greece has been rioting for years on end. Those drink-till-you-vomit-in-the streets, rave-on-ecstasy-till-you-vomit-in-the-streets, chavs and goons and hooligan wankers. They who let their elderly roast to death during a heat wave. Rampant antisemitism. Neo-Nazis. Chavs (I had to mention them twice because they are that annoying). Europe is the Alabama of the world.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or just a retard and i'll point out here at no point in this thread have i bashed the US so i don't appreciate the slander against where i live.

EDIT: Fuck it i will make small responses.

Greg the White wrote:

-Since the USA is a relatively new nation, our country was founded with the gun. The fact that our ancestors fought the natives with the gun, we expanded west-ward with the gun, we fought in tons of major wars in the gun age, and other factors all contributed to an idea that a gun is a tool used to prosper and defend what we hold dear. I'm oversimplifying, but it's a major factor with many good points on all sides of the debate. Meanwhile, all of the movies and video games where the good guy makes everything right by shooting the bad guys is adding a new, delusional spin on what was once a debatable point with multiple sides.

There's nothing i can say about this. It's your history.

Greg the White wrote:

-Many European countries are typically homogenous societies with much less diversity than ours. Here, there are so many different enclaves of culture, ethnicity, political ideals, and others that our attitudes. So many of these even lead 20th century clashes like Branch Davidians, the multiple Native American Reservation standoffs, gang violence, hate crimes, political assassinations, etc.

That's sort of true on Europe. N.Ireland is pretty diverse in that it has British and Irish culture - which is what the whole problem in this country comes about. Last census there were approx 1000 black people in N.Ireland of a population of 1.7 million. Other countries are definitely more diverse.

Greg the White wrote:

-An attitude that once something is dead, a problem is solved. If we kill Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, there will be peace in Iraq/Afghanistan. If we kill Medgar Evers and Martin Luther King, the Civil Rights Movement will be over. If we kill George Wallace, racism will be over (okay, that's half-true, but nobody saw his switch coming if he survived). This maybe a side-effect of the first point, but it's big enough to the point that it's an attitude that shows up from the lowliest crimes all the way up to military doctrine.

It would be stupid and naive to suggest that if you removed guns, gun problems would go away. It's extremely ridiculous and i am not suggesting that at all. Hell there are still shootings in Europe which supports this.

Greg the White wrote:

-Much how when any major country becomes an economic powerhouse, there's a huge piggy bank that many have-nots with nothing left to lose will do anything to crack open. England was one of the most dangerous countries in the world during prosperous times, and had they had the means that criminals have today, you can bet there'd be a lot more similar stuff going down.

I can't really comment on England too much because i'm not from there lol. I imagine England had a lot of crime throughout the 15th to 20th century however that was then and this is now. Crime was rampant then or at least more common because there was less regulation.

Social and economic conditions were different. You can't really compare or stick guns into that time period and then say well it would be like this.

Greg the White wrote:

I meant the "dead it will go away" point as a way of pointing out how people use it as a justification to try to violently solve their problems. As far as the crime in prosperity thing goes, this can happen in any nation. Highwaymen in Europe robbed with guns, and muggers used their knives or pistols. It'd be naive to think that they wouldn't try to use modern handguns in this day and age in order to aid their activities. One thing I dislike is the attitude in liberals that we have to copy everything Europe does, likewise for the Conservatives who point at Europe's problems whenever regulation as a topic is brought up at all. When we talked about health care reform, ultra-conservatives just started pointing at the problems with Europe/Canada's systems, automatically assuming we'd just copy those. We're a unique nation in many aspects, and we'll need to find our own solutions for these problems. I just hate how many people want to limit our potential by either copying what's already there word for word, or to fold our arms and constantly say "no" to anything new.

Although i think taxed healthcare is a good thing the NHS or a system like it would not work in the USA. Also the NHS has problems.

Syd Lexia wrote:

As for guns, consider this: Canada has more guns per person than America, but significantly less violent crime. So gun ownership is not in and of itself a problem.

Okay so if guns aren't the problem then i guess the USA is just a country full of psychos and sociopaths who go around killing eachother.

I also love how people are intimating that i am a liberal LOL.